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  • Bush as a starter?

    Team still discussing this. According to JD he wants to be a starter. Shouldn't expect him for more than 140 or so innings in 2018 if we went this route. It would really mean giving the 2019 and beyond rotations another option. I think it's unlikely unless we wiff on everyone but something to at least consider now that he's not thought of as a lockdown closer

  • #2
    I love the upside of the move and I do think his stuff is better suited to the rotation. And given how expensive FA starters are, you have to consider the move no matter what.

    I can't bring myself to endorse the move given the past history, but you can make the argument that the Rangers have learned from the past mistakes. It seems like the problems were either from moving the guy back and forth or from injuries, but Bush seems to have a better arm and better attitude than some of the guys who tried before.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kaisersoze View Post
      I love the upside of the move and I do think his stuff is better suited to the rotation. And given how expensive FA starters are, you have to consider the move no matter what.

      I can't bring myself to endorse the move given the past history, but you can make the argument that the Rangers have learned from the past mistakes. It seems like the problems were either from moving the guy back and forth or from injuries, but Bush seems to have a better arm and better attitude than some of the guys who tried before.
      It makes some sense if you think about it like adding an upper level starting pitching prospect into the system. We look to get what we can out of Bush, Mendez and Jurado as potential starters going forward. Those guys are much closer than the Brett Martin, Kyle Cody, Jon Hernandez, Aj Alexy and Matuella of the world who need much more time

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      • #4
        It would be a mistake to go beyond 120 innings

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Toby Harrah View Post

          It makes some sense if you think about it like adding an upper level starting pitching prospect into the system. We look to get what we can out of Bush, Mendez and Jurado as potential starters going forward. Those guys are much closer than the Brett Martin, Kyle Cody, Jon Hernandez, Aj Alexy and Matuella of the world who need much more time
          True, and I don't think we can count on Mendez and Jurado for 2018. It could happen but it would be in the second half.

          And another difference between Bush and the previous guys who tanked going into the rotation is that he 3 or 4 pitches. Guys like Feliz and Ogando had two, which is a big difference. CJ Wilson had more than 2 (like Bush) and he also succeeded in the rotation.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Toby Harrah
            Team still discussing this. According to JD he wants to be a starter. Shouldn't expect him for more than 140 or so innings in 2018 if we went this route. It would really mean giving the 2019 and beyond rotations another option. I think it's unlikely unless we wiff on everyone but something to at least consider now that he's not thought of as a lockdown closer
            Haven't we done this enough. Alexi Ogando, Robbie Ross, Tanner Scheppers, Neftali Feliz, etc. Why do they always try to force decent relievers into starting roles? When is the last time it really worked? Ogando worked out for half a season, then he was pretty much done no matter where he pitched. CJ Wilson was the last success story, and that was 2009. JD needs to give up on this. And doesn't Bush only have 2 pitches. I guess its a good strategy if we want to be 4th in the division and go back to being mediocre.

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            • #7
              It all depends on the free agent market this year and how well they do acquiring relief help. Also, what happens in Spring Training. If some young Ranger farm hand takes the Cactus League by storm this Spring it won't be the first time in baseball history a rookie shows up to surprise.

              Anyway, I don't think we have to do this with the good free agent crop and all the money the Rangers have. Just sign Arrieta and Cobb, beef up the bullpen and be done with it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
                Haven't we done this enough. Alexi Ogando, Robbie Ross, Tanner Scheppers, Neftali Feliz, etc. Why do they always try to force decent relievers into starting roles? When is the last time it really worked? Ogando worked out for half a season, then he was pretty much done no matter where he pitched. CJ Wilson was the last success story, and that was 2009. JD needs to give up on this. And doesn't Bush only have 2 pitches. I guess its a good strategy if we want to be 4th in the division and go back to being mediocre.
                Bush has 4 pitches. He has a starter's repertoire. And he wants to start. That matters. While it's true that it only totally worked out with CJ, that move also helped lead them to two WS. And same with Ogando. You have to look at risk/reward, not just risk.

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                • #9
                  I love the move...You could get 3 WAR from him in 2018 as a starter. Bush has 1WAR per season so far. You could triple the yield.

                  Pitchers have limited shelf life anyway you cut it...and good relievers turn into bad relievers from year to year with remarkable frequency anyway.

                  Might work, might not... to convert him.
                  Might work, might not... if we keep him as a reliever.

                  He could blow up as a reliever next season...that happens quite often with these guys. There is risk EITHER WAY...but the reward is higher as a starter. And we desperately need starters.

                  As Doug say, you have to look at risk/reward.

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                  • #10

                    CJ, Ogando and Feliz all pitched as starter in minor league and you know they can start. My question is will Bush need to start game in minor league game for 2 or 3 months before let him start in major? Will the Rangers have enough pitching allow them to do so?

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                    • #11
                      biggest problem with bush to me is he throws a lot of pitches to get outs. he is going to have to become more efficient. darvish had similar problems. can this coaching staff get him on track and keep him on track or just demolish him like they have so many others

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mingjungtc View Post
                        CJ, Ogando and Feliz all pitched as starter in minor league and you know they can start. My question is will Bush need to start game in minor league game for 2 or 3 months before let him start in major? Will the Rangers have enough pitching allow them to do so?
                        I think you put him in the minors a few months to figure things out. Then put him in the rotation 2nd half of the year and limit his total innings. Hopefully he gives us some quality starts down the stretch. Then he becomes a real back end starter option in years 2,3,4

                        I think this happens if we don't get Otani or one of the big 4 FA starters

                        Allows us to try out Bush and Mendez over the next couple years while our young pitching is developing. Maybe one of them stick in the rotation
                        Last edited by Toby Harrah; 10-12-2017, 01:29 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Toby Harrah View Post

                          I think you put him in the minors a few months to figure things out. Then put him in the rotation 2nd half of the year and limit his total innings. Hopefully he gives us some quality starts down the stretch. Then he becomes a real back end starter option in years 2,3,4

                          I think this happens if we don't get Otani or one of the big 4 FA starters
                          dont think you have this luxury

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rainag View Post

                            dont think you have this luxury
                            If AJ, Bush and Mendez are our 6,7,8 starters I'm fine with that

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Doug View Post

                              Bush has 4 pitches. He has a starter's repertoire. And he wants to start. That matters. While it's true that it only totally worked out with CJ, that move also helped lead them to two WS. And same with Ogando. You have to look at risk/reward, not just risk.
                              Also now that the team has gone through this several times, it seems like the issue was more about moving guys back and forth rather than just moving them to the rotation and leaving them there. You would think that if the Rangers make this move, they do it having learned from past mistakes.

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