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Elvis "Babe Ruth" Andrus

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  • Elvis "Babe Ruth" Andrus

    4 homers in just a few days? WTF? 20 on the year.

    Guy seems intent on putting this team on his back and carrying it to post-season.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post
    4 homers in just a few days? WTF? 20 on the year.

    Guy seems intent on putting this team on his back and carrying it to post-season.
    Dude's crushing it. It's a good thing we didn't follow the advice of the many here who wanted to dump him after the 2015 postseason.

    And there's probably a lesson in there for our handling of Odor as well. Young players need to learn tough lessons through failure sometimes. If you rush to judgment, you'll often regret it.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dannyboy8517 View Post

      Dude's crushing it. It's a good thing we didn't follow the advice of the many here who wanted to dump him after the 2015 postseason.

      And there's probably a lesson in there for our handling of Odor as well. Young players need to learn tough lessons through failure sometimes. If you rush to judgment, you'll often regret it.
      True. Trouble with Odor is his approach has been flawed, limiting his ceiling and lowering his floor. We see a few hints that might change but he often reverts.

      Speaking of judging prematurely... Profar?

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      • #4
        I gotta wonder what Andrus might have been had Wash not made him a bunt and slap hitter.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post

          True. Trouble with Odor is his approach has been flawed, limiting his ceiling and lowering his floor. We see a few hints that might change but he often reverts.

          Speaking of judging prematurely... Profar?
          My point with Profar has never been that he can't or won't be a major league regular. I've just always felt he had more value to this organization as a trade chip than as a player. I thought it was foolish to move an all-star second baseman to make room for him, particularly if it meant taking on Prince Fielder's contract to do it. And I thought it was dumb to keep him around once we had committed to Odor as our starting second baseman.

          I'm not as high on Profar as those here, but I've never closed off the possibility of him establishing himself at the big league level. In fact, I've said many times I thought he would become a starting caliber player. I've just always felt his presence in this organization complicated things more than it solved them.
          Last edited by dannyboy8517; 09-06-2017, 05:07 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post
            I gotta wonder what Andrus might have been had Wash not made him a bunt and slap hitter.
            I don't think Andrus' development as a hitter had anything to do with Wash. Wash just used Elvis as the player he was at the time, which was a Punch and Judy hitter with speed, and he got several of his best years out of him that way.

            The biggest difference between Elvis now and Elvis then is that he's a grown man who finally has confidence in his ability to drive the ball. That was always going to take time with him.

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            • #7
              I still like to trace it back to when Josh Hamilton handed him one of his bats and told him he was big enough physically to handle it rather than the light bat he was using at the time. He's done nothing but hit since.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Redcap View Post
                I still like to trace it back to when Josh Hamilton handed him one of his bats and told him he was big enough physically to handle it rather than the light bat he was using at the time. He's done nothing but hit since.
                I think that had a large effect as well.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by dannyboy8517 View Post

                  I don't think Andrus' development as a hitter had anything to do with Wash. Wash just used Elvis as the player he was at the time, which was a Punch and Judy hitter with speed, and he got several of his best years out of him that way.

                  The biggest difference between Elvis now and Elvis then is that he's a grown man who finally has confidence in his ability to drive the ball. That was always going to take time with him.
                  Look around the league. The bunt is dead. SABR folks prevailed. The other big trend in the league (also analytics-driven) is to swing aggressively. A .300 hitter who hits a ton of singles (and inevitable double plays) while not walking much...those players just aren't valued so much anymore.

                  Washington wanted Elvis to be the traditional #2 hitter. Sacrifice bunts and other advancement of the runner, while conceding an out. Wash was in love with inferior metrics like batting average...and had an undue love for small ball. He totally stunted Elvis' development.

                  If you doubt it go back and look at Andrus' swing mechanics from a few years ago...as well as his stats. Guy rarely even put the balls into the gaps. And Elvis isn't a little guy! His swing was almost all upper-body w/out leveraging his base. 0 homers in multiple seasons!

                  Elvis not only has far more homers this season than ever...he's on pace to double the doubles (yes 2x doubles) he hit in some of the Wash-era years. RW wanted a boy player... only now are we seeing Elvis the man.
                  Last edited by ProfarMVP; 09-06-2017, 05:48 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post

                    Look around the league. The bunt is dead. SABR folks prevailed. The other big trend in the league (also analytics-driven) is to swing aggressively. A .300 hitter who hits a ton of singles (and inevitable double plays) while not walking much...those players just aren't valued so much anymore.

                    Washington wanted Elvis to be the traditional #2 hitter. Sacrifice bunts and other advancement of the runner, while conceding an out. Wash was in love with inferior metrics like batting average...and had an undue love for small ball. He totally stunted Elvis' development.

                    If you doubt it go back and look at Andrus' swing mechanics from a few years ago...as well as his stats. Guy rarely even put the balls into the gaps. And Elvis isn't a little guy!

                    Elvis not only has far more homers this season than ever...he's on pace to double the doubles (yes 2x doubles) he hit in some of the Wash-era years.
                    Wash had Elvis from ages 20-24. He wasn't the same player physically that he is now -- not by a long shot.

                    Blaming Wash for Elvis' lack of power at those ages, when he a) never hit more than five home runs in a season in the minors, and b) didn't reach double figures for the first time until this season, is absurd. And it's particularly so when you take into account that a) Elvis averaged 3.4 WAR in those five seasons, and b) helped the Rangers to two World Series appearances.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dannyboy8517 View Post

                      Wash had Elvis from ages 20-24. He wasn't the same player physically that he is now -- not by a long shot.

                      Blaming Wash for Elvis' lack of power at those ages, when he a) never hit more than five home runs in a season in the minors, and b) didn't reach double figures for the first time until this season, is absurd. And it's particularly so when you take into account that a) Elvis averaged 3.4 WAR in those five seasons, and b) helped the Rangers to two World Series appearances.
                      Elvis had 6 homers in his rookie season...with Wash's influence not only did his power not grow...it shriveled up...5 straight seasons virtually no homers.

                      Everything we know about young hitters is that power comes with maturity. Well...Not for Elvis under Wash.

                      Elvis's defense and base-running was what was driving all his early WAR. There was no value in his bat until the past two seasons.

                      He hasn't had a wRC+ over 100 until last season. Under Wash he was posting marks like 75, 78...80. Not good.

                      You can't tell us, Danny, that Andrus wasn't capable of at least good doubles power early in his career and 8-12 HR per year. He's not some 5'9 160 pounder. Never has been.

                      He became the player Wash wanted him to be, bunting and slapping singles.
                      Last edited by ProfarMVP; 09-06-2017, 08:16 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Redcap View Post
                        I still like to trace it back to when Josh Hamilton handed him one of his bats and told him he was big enough physically to handle it rather than the light bat he was using at the time. He's done nothing but hit since.
                        May have helped.

                        "Let the boy die and the man be born"

                        Ultimately...its not the stick or the sword so much as the one wielding it. He's using his lower half now.
                        Last edited by ProfarMVP; 09-06-2017, 08:51 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Fangraphs analysis on Elvis...
                          "through 2015, Andrus never once managed a three-digit wRC+. He was a slap- and ground-ball hitter, a guy who might be able to single and steal a base. Andrus used to bunt a lot. There were so many bunts."

                          "In 2015, Andrus ranked in the 36th percentile in average exit velocity. That, obviously, combines his first three months and his last three months. In 2016, Andrus ranked in the 56th percentile in average exit velocity. He was right there tied with Jose Altuve, Mike Napoli, and Aledmys Diaz, so thereís enough strength there to be threatening."

                          "The planned reinvention has been a runaway success. Andrus isnít just an acceptable hitter for a shortstop. Heís an acceptable hitter, period. And that still undersells him. Heís a better hitter now than most other hitters."
                          The article features photos of his old and new swing.
                          http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-c...-elvis-andrus/

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                          • #14
                            How about this... we package Choo and Guzman in a deal for pitching. Andrus to 3B, Gallo 1B, Beltre DH, Profar SS. Outfield of Calhoun, DDJ and Mazara. Chirinos. Why not? Focus all spending on pitching, pitching, and what the heck, pitching.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Flounder1 View Post
                              How about this... we package Choo and Guzman in a deal for pitching. Andrus to 3B, Gallo 1B, Beltre DH, Profar SS. Outfield of Calhoun, DDJ and Mazara. Chirinos. Why not? Focus all spending on pitching, pitching, and what the heck, pitching.
                              I like the gist of it. The goal. I'm just not sure there are a lot of good young pitchers to target with that free agency money. We will have pieces to trade without dipping into the premium talent further down in the farm...maybe we can land a MORP with Profar.

                              Gotta convert some positional surplus to pitching.
                              Last edited by ProfarMVP; 09-06-2017, 09:15 PM.

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