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  • Originally posted by Redcap View Post
    1

    So, I guess you want to ditch Beltre? He's the only aging player who is not on a 1 year besides Choo. Maybe you mean Elvis?

    Maybe you expect a Teixeira return for one of our older players but I don't see it. It would make since to get rid of older short term players if we had a replacement who needed to move up? What do you expect to get for Napoli? Gomez? Choo (if you get someone to pick up the contract)? Neither Cashner nor Ross have been as good as Dempster and Garza looked before they were traded.
    People keep bringing this up but you don't seem to be grasping it. The Rangers are going to lose most, if not all, of these free-agents-to-be in the winter anyway. Their choices are to keep them and miss the playoffs or trade them and miss the playoffs but actually get some young talent back for them. I'm having trouble understanding how you could possibly be against the latter.

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    • Originally posted by Redcap View Post

      So, I guess you want to ditch Beltre? He's the only aging player who is not on a 1 year besides Choo. Maybe you mean Elvis?

      Maybe you expect a Teixeira return for one of our older players but I don't see it. It would make since to get rid of older short term players if we had a replacement who needed to move up? What do you expect to get for Napoli? Gomez? Choo (if you get someone to pick up the contract)? Neither Cashner nor Ross have been as good as Dempster and Garza looked before they were traded.
      I've said repeatedly I'd keep Hamels, Beltre and Andrus to assist the transition from this core to the next. But I would trade every expiring contract (Yu included, if we can't reach an agreement on an extension before the deadline), Profar and Choo to add as many prospects as possible and free up cash to add a targeted free agent or two in the offseason. This team doesn't need a full-blown rebuild now. The longer we resist a significant retooling, however, the more likely it will be that we do.

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      • I think this is a year we could trade both ways for controllable players for the future. I am not against giving something up for a future player just not for a rental.

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        • Originally posted by dannyboy8517 View Post

          I've said repeatedly I'd keep Hamels, Beltre and Andrus to assist the transition from this core to the next. But I would trade every expiring contract (Yu included, if we can't reach an agreement on an extension before the deadline), Profar and Choo to add as many prospects as possible and free up cash to add a targeted free agent or two in the offseason. This team doesn't need a full-blown rebuild now. The longer we resist a significant retooling, however, the more likely it will be that we do.
          The problem is that Gomez and Napoli really won't fetch any real prospects. Ross and his 6+ era won't either. Cashner might bring in a little something. I've already stated (as I think everyone on this board has) that Lucroy needs to go regardless. Yu is the only players of the expiring contracts that would really draw a real prospect. If Elvis continues to hit like this going into next season, he'll opt out of his contract and trading Profar will leave the Rangers searching for a shortstop.

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          • Originally posted by Redcap View Post

            The problem is that Gomez and Napoli really won't fetch any real prospects. Ross and his 6+ era won't either. Cashner might bring in a little something. I've already stated (as I think everyone on this board has) that Lucroy needs to go regardless. Yu is the only players of the expiring contracts that would really draw a real prospect. If Elvis continues to hit like this going into next season, he'll opt out of his contract and trading Profar will leave the Rangers searching for a shortstop.
            Gomez could certainly return some prospects. Are you kidding me? A good defensive center fielder with a wRC+ of 110...and rising. He could be an impact player for 3 months and into the playoffs.

            Lucroy isn't helping us any. Any return is a good return. He recently threw the pitching staff under the bus so I think the Rangers will look aggressively to move him. He has some cred based on his career.

            Ross's value could rise quite a bit if he gets his control together and that could happen.

            Elvis is under team control through 2018. I'm with Danny...your reluctance to trade guys who won't be Rangers in a few months anyway...counters all common sense and is mystifiying.

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            • Yea, I guess we could use Kozma the rest of the year. Fabulous first baseman. Or maybe he could play centerfield? Or bring up Hoying? Who plays centerfield next year? Not a lot on the free agent market. Yes, I would love it if DeShields went to winter ball with the purpose of getting better at reading balls in center, but I doubt that happens. As to re-signing traded players, it really doesn't happen often.

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              • Originally posted by Redcap View Post
                Yea, I guess we could use Kozma the rest of the year. Fabulous first baseman. Or maybe he could play centerfield? Or bring up Hoying? Who plays centerfield next year? Not a lot on the free agent market. Yes, I would love it if DeShields went to winter ball with the purpose of getting better at reading balls in center, but I doubt that happens. As to re-signing traded players, it really doesn't happen often.
                Pete Kozma is more likely to be gone next week than he is to be here the rest of the year. Don't be silly.

                If we were to trade these guys, you'd see a whole bunch of young guys like Robinson and Nicholas brought up and given a chance to play, which would be more fun IMO than watching a sub-.500 team with a bunch of guys who won't be here in 2018.
                Last edited by dannyboy8517; 07-05-2017, 09:49 PM.

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                • Originally posted by dannyboy8517 View Post

                  Pete Kozma is more likely to be gone next week than he is to be here the rest of the year. Don't be silly.

                  If we were to trade these guys, you'd see a whole bunch of young guys like Robinson and Nicholas brought up and given a chance to play, which would be more fun IMO than watching a sub-.500 team with a bunch of guys who won't be here in 2018.
                  It wouldn't be fun watching Robinson and DeShields stumble around in centerfield while balls fly all over the place. Bad baseball is never fun. Kind of like Kozma trying to play first base.

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                  • Andrus has been our most consistent bat this year and he's in the prime of his career. I would not trade him, he could be valuable for the remainder of his contract. DDS is expandable to me, I'd trade him and resign Gomez until Tavares is ready to be called up in 2-3 years. Lucroy is definitely the guy I'd be listening to offers for, any kind of prospects and maybe bullpen arm would be enticing

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                    • Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post

                      Gomez could certainly return some prospects. Are you kidding me? A good defensive center fielder with a wRC+ of 110...and rising. He could be an impact player for 3 months and into the playoffs.

                      Lucroy isn't helping us any. Any return is a good return. He recently threw the pitching staff under the bus so I think the Rangers will look aggressively to move him. He has some cred based on his career.

                      Ross's value could rise quite a bit if he gets his control together and that could happen.

                      Elvis is under team control through 2018. I'm with Danny...your reluctance to trade guys who won't be Rangers in a few months anyway...counters all common sense and is mystifiying.
                      Totally agree. Lumping Napoli and Gomez in the same sentence regarding similar trade value is comical. Hanging on to Cashner and Ross through the end of the year because you may want to resign them is equally mystifying.

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                      • Can you imagine Profar, Odor and Gallo in the same batting lineup every night? Ouch! It hurts just to think about it.

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                        • 2018 position players

                          C Chirinos
                          1B Condor Guzman
                          2B Profar
                          SS Elvis
                          3B Beltre
                          LF Joey Gallo
                          CF ?
                          RF Mazara
                          DH Choo

                          CF is the only hole they need to fill. And that could easily be Carlos Gomez. He's a plus fielder and he hits from the right side and is a positive addition to the batting lineup. All depends on the terms. Those lamenting about a big five year rebuild a way off. Thereis no place for a poor fielding 2B with a .250 OBP. If he goes down to AA and recommits to owning the plate and using the whole field, that is a different story. But, he's one of the worst players n the majors and he shouldn't be counted on.

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                          • Originally posted by Doug View Post
                            2018 position players

                            C Chirinos
                            1B Condor Guzman
                            2B Profar
                            SS Elvis
                            3B Beltre
                            LF Joey Gallo
                            CF ?
                            RF Mazara
                            DH Choo

                            CF is the only hole they need to fill. And that could easily be Carlos Gomez. He's a plus fielder and he hits from the right side and is a positive addition to the batting lineup. All depends on the terms. Those lamenting about a big five year rebuild a way off. Thereis no place for a poor fielding 2B with a .250 OBP. If he goes down to AA and recommits to owning the plate and using the whole field, that is a different story. But, he's one of the worst players n the majors and he shouldn't be counted on.
                            I keep hoping that DeShields will learn how to play centerfield better. He has the speed but needs to learn to read the ball better.

                            The big problem will be the rotation with Hamels, Perez, Martinez, ABD, and Griffin (for a few games until he gets injured.)

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                            • Originally posted by Doug View Post
                              2018 position players

                              C Chirinos
                              1B Condor Guzman
                              2B Profar
                              SS Elvis
                              3B Beltre
                              LF Joey Gallo
                              CF ?
                              RF Mazara
                              DH Choo

                              CF is the only hole they need to fill. And that could easily be Carlos Gomez. He's a plus fielder and he hits from the right side and is a positive addition to the batting lineup. All depends on the terms. Those lamenting about a big five year rebuild a way off. Thereis no place for a poor fielding 2B with a .250 OBP. If he goes down to AA and recommits to owning the plate and using the whole field, that is a different story. But, he's one of the worst players n the majors and he shouldn't be counted on.
                              I maybe agree on 95%, but I don't see the Rangers giving up on Odor and they are saddled to him w/that contract. I'd like to hear your plan for what we would do with him. Profar's role continues to be a mystery to me. I think it's most likely he gets traded.

                              I also think Beltre could be traded and Gallo assumes 3B. We get a LF in free agency.

                              The pitching is the far bigger issue and the one trickier to address quickly.
                              Last edited by ProfarMVP; 07-07-2017, 04:23 PM.

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                              • That doesn't look like a winning batting lineup, even with Gomez in it. Guzman is a big question mark having never played in the majors. 220 strikeouts in LF and playing a 3B in LF doesn't sound great, just passable. What's he up to? 40% strikeouts.

                                I like Profar's potential, but what do you plan to do with Odor's contract? That situation is a mess, and I don't see how you get out of it? And, that does not even address the pitching. You might be able to get by with a batting lineup like that with great pitching, but where are we going to get the pitching? Wouldn't our entire 2018 season depend upon signing both Darvish and Otani, filling out the bottom two spots in the rotation and rebuilding the entire bullpen? I thought this offseason was going to be a great one for free agent pitchers, but many of the guys I was depending upon being available are all faltering this year. It's deep, but not with great quality. If we don't get Darvish to sign, who else?

                                Seriously, I'm not thinking the next few years are going to be much fun for Rangers fans and that depresses me. This is our last chance to win anything for a long time, and that isn't going too well. I'm still hoping for a turnaround because a decade of constant churning and rebuilding looks very possible. I went through that from 1972 until 1995 with this team. Then, again from 2000-2010. Too many things can go wrong in a rebuild. Most attempts at a rebuild fail. We're starting the turnover with a very weak farm, only one good, young, proven everyday player, Mazara, a rotation that is leaving after the end of this season, and no bullpen. And in the not so distant future, well... you just can't replace guys like Beltre, Choo and Andrus. They've meant so much to this team, and now they'll be gone before they even finish the new stadium.

                                My guess is there "might" be one or two guys on that list who will be here the next time the Rangers win anything. Might. More likely, they will all be retired from baseball before we win anything.

                                So, let's just hope we can sweep these Angels, get a closer and put the whoop-*** on the American League while we still have a fighting chance!

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