Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Yu and Otani

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Yu and Otani

    Here's a question for the board. Is signing Yu to a massive contract, 6 years 180, worth it to increase your odd of getting Otani. The guy can hit 102 on the gun and play DH. He is Japan's best pitcher and hitter. Yu is Otani's hero and role model which increases your odds of landing him. Give Yu his contract to help get a generational player. I say yes!

  • #2
    It's more like 8/240 for Yu. And no, we cannot let $ stand in our way. Getting one or both completely changes our franchise

    Comment


    • #3
      You can do it, at the risk of imploding your franchise if Yu gets an injury or goes back to spoiled brat mode. And if Otani is another Japanese wash out. I mean most of these Japanese come over and are good players, but beside Ichiro who has been a legitimate super star hall of fane caliber player from Japan? Hideki Nomo, great for while then steep decline. Hideki Matsui, meh, ok for a while, would anyone care if he didn't have such hype. The other great Japanese piticher, can't remember his name, but famously called a fat toad. The current yankess japaneese pitcher, who did good his first year and really hasnt maintained it. I'd love to see us get Otani, but if it means 6 years of Yu and $240 million, IDK, pretty risky. And I like Yu, but he just seems to never come through in the clutch. I dont know if having Yu makes or breaks this franchise. We came way closer to winning the world series with CJ Wilson than Yu. We recovered from a horrendous start in 2015 to win the division, without Yu. I like him. I want him here. I just don't think he's a difference maker as far as the franchise is concerned. I hate to see him go, which I believe is inevitable. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Toby Harrah
        It's more like 8/240 for Yu. And no, we cannot let $ stand in our way. Getting one or both completely changes our franchise
        This is Angel fan philosophy though, and its dangerous. Remember their pompous boasting when they got Puljos, Wilson, and Josh Hamilton. Then Grienke. They looked like world beaters on paper, and sure it changed their franchise....for the worst. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
          This is Angel fan philosophy though, and its dangerous. Remember their pompous boasting when they got Puljos, Wilson, and Josh Hamilton. Then Grienke. They looked like world beaters on paper, and sure it changed their franchise....for the worst. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
          Yu is young and is just now reaching his prime. We aren't a weak small market team and this is the price to pay in order to have an ace. His body will hold up and who cares if it's an overpay in the later years? This is nothing like CJ and Hamilton where we knew all along they were a bad bet going forward

          The rebuild people are taking a much larger risk than $30 million a year. Our track record for growing aces is almost as bad as our track record for signing them. Darvish/Otani make us instant competitors. You do it no matter the price

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Toby Harrah View Post

            Yu is young and is just now reaching his prime. We aren't a weak small market team and this is the price to pay in order to have an ace. His body will hold up and who cares if it's an overpay in the later years? This is nothing like CJ and Hamilton where we knew all along they were a bad bet going forward

            The rebuild people are taking a much larger risk than $30 million a year. Our track record for growing aces is almost as bad as our track record for signing them. Darvish/Otani make us instant competitors. You do it no matter the price

            At some point I'd think fans around here would learn that aging players just aren't the same. Elite players lose athleticism, reaction time and they start to break down. How much money has the Ranger franchise burned through not giving this fact sufficient weight?

            Sorry but Yu is not young. He's 30. In August he'll be 31.

            Here are some aging facts about pitchers
            -Through age 28, pitchers stay within .5 mph of their peak velocity; but starting at age 29 they have lost about 1 mph with the loss accelerating every year thereafter.

            -Pitchers post-30 are increasingly likely to get hurt... and mend slower

            The most elite pitchers in the world are *usually* just not the same in their thirties.

            -Felix Hernandez was posting 5 and 6 WAR seasons. What has he done since age 29? Dropped to 2.9 WAR in '15, 1 WAR last season and now he's hurt.
            -CC Sabbathia, thru age 30 was one of the best in the business. In his thirties he's been very average
            I could go on and on w/examples.

            $150-$200 mil is too much to invest on a guy the wrong side of 30.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Dude would trade Darvish for a solid return and then sign Otani. Then perhaps that motivates Darvish to return to Texas. Maybe 5-6 years with an opt-out at 3 would be attractive?

              Two ace pitchers plus Hamels and some solid prospects to boot. That would be The Dude's ideal situation. Even if Darvish doesn't return, it's a pretty awesome situation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Toby Harrah View Post
                It's more like 8/240 for Yu. And no, we cannot let $ stand in our way. Getting one or both completely changes our franchise
                I don't think it would be that much money, but it would be a lot. Signing Darvish the first time was "situation specific" and I think getting Otani and resigning Darvish is as well. The ownership can do it if they want to, the key is that they will have a core of young (meaning cheap) talent like Mazara, Odor, Gallo, Guzman, Profar, etc. You can't be the Yankees or Dodgers, but if most of the team are good but cheap like Mazara you can afford to have Hamels, Darvish and Otani on the team at the same time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
                  This is Angel fan philosophy though, and its dangerous. Remember their pompous boasting when they got Puljos, Wilson, and Josh Hamilton. Then Grienke. They looked like world beaters on paper, and sure it changed their franchise....for the worst. Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
                  The difference there is that even when the Angels had those three guys they had nothing else. There was no other talent in the majors or the minors, while the Rangers have both.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kaisersoze View Post

                    I don't think it would be that much money, but it would be a lot. Signing Darvish the first time was "situation specific" and I think getting Otani and resigning Darvish is as well. The ownership can do it if they want to, the key is that they will have a core of young (meaning cheap) talent like Mazara, Odor, Gallo, Guzman, Profar, etc. You can't be the Yankees or Dodgers, but if most of the team are good but cheap like Mazara you can afford to have Hamels, Darvish and Otani on the team at the same time.
                    The youth is here already though. If we add Guzman to what we have that's 4 nice young players to build around. Any more and it becomes almost too much youth in the lineup. Our closer and best bullpen pieces are young. Our bench is all young cheap players too. Our infield is set at the key positions for years. Our best prospects are outfielders which happens to be where we will need a youth infusion next a few years from now.

                    I agree its situation specific and we'll be all in. It's precisely because of the youth it makes sense to capitalize on their cheapness before they become more expensive. Even if we blow it with Darvish/Otani we still need to spend some on pitching just maybe not in years or $ we would've with Darvish. It's when these young guys become more expensive that we need to have our minor league pitching ready to contribute and producing torp material. Darvish gives us time

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by child176 View Post
                      Here's a question for the board. Is signing Yu to a massive contract, 6 years 180, worth it to increase your odd of getting Otani. The guy can hit 102 on the gun and play DH. He is Japan's best pitcher and hitter. Yu is Otani's hero and role model which increases your odds of landing him. Give Yu his contract to help get a generational player. I say yes!
                      Unless ownership is ready to wildly increase spending, I can't see us possibly signing both Yu and Otani. Seems like fantasy to me, unless ownership is ready to change everything we know about payroll.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kaisersoze View Post

                        The difference there is that even when the Angels had those three guys they had nothing else. There was no other talent in the majors or the minors, while the Rangers have both.
                        Not so much in the minors right now.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We still owe on Fielder over $50 mil after this season. Beltre is beginning a 2yr/$36 mil extension. Choo is getting $20 mil per...Evis $15m. Odor is getting 6/$50...which almost is more of a 5/$50 as the team deferred almost all the money. We have a number of guys coming off the books (with the 1-yr contracts) but guess what: we need to replace those players.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Otani isn't going to cost any team that much because of the signing limits on international players. What most teams will have to resort to is showing Otani that their team is the best for his services. There are several of major players like the Dodgers that can't even enter the bidding because of the overspend penalty they are under. Right now, the Rangers can only offer $4.75 million. By trading for someone else's signing money, they could acquire up to 75% more.

                            Here's the list of teams amounts and those under restrictions:
                            http://www.baseballamerica.com/inter...08jTkpEMy1y.97

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kaisersoze View Post

                              I don't think it would be that much money, but it would be a lot. Signing Darvish the first time was "situation specific" and I think getting Otani and resigning Darvish is as well. The ownership can do it if they want to, the key is that they will have a core of young (meaning cheap) talent like Mazara, Odor, Gallo, Guzman, Profar, etc. You can't be the Yankees or Dodgers, but if most of the team are good but cheap like Mazara you can afford to have Hamels, Darvish and Otani on the team at the same time.
                              I agree that it won't take that much to sign Yu. Look at the other 31-year-old pitchers and what they got. None of them got any $240 million for eight years. More like five years at $150 million, if that. We can sign him and Otani. Piece of cake and what JD plans. He's been in Japan scouting Otani and has tried to get Darvish to sign. Because all we need besides that is an outfielder, provided Gallo mans first base for a year until Beltre retires or moves to DH, it's probably within budget. If Darvish takes more, OK, we'll sign Alex Cobb or Estrada, someone like that. Otani, Hamels, Cobb, Griffin and Perez is still a dang mean rotation.

                              It's an interesting idea to let Otani DH on his days off from the rotation. It's a weird risk, but DH is not as risky as having him play OF. It may make it possible to use Choo's salary to ameliorate the extra expense, but I'd rather keep Choo, too, for awhile, to see what happens.He's been a positive contributor at the plate. Fabulous OBP and runs scored. Lots going on at the farm with Guzman, Mendez and Profar in the fold. Lots of trade ammo and talent to make this all happen in 2018 and beyond. Yu likes Otani, too. He'd probably love to be on the same team with him. Otani will be thrilled to be in the same rotation with his idol. JD can make that happen.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X