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  • #31
    ProfarMVP you're in Anchorage? That's pretty neat. So if you're in Alaska and went to UCLA, how'd you become a Rangers fan?

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    • #32
      It's so typical..

      Attack the Messenger (Kaiser)
      Change the Topic (Incy28)
      Silently Ignore (Sooner) ---yes I know you lurk (or will lurk after your evening service!)

      Anything to avoid the challenge to your beliefs...to avoid toppling what makes you comfortable.

      CHICKENS!

      Carl, I commend you truly for both disagreeing with me...but furthering a meaningful dialog. And yes, Martin Luther viewed the book of James as an "epistle of straw". Think about that--the father of the protestant reformation calling 1/66* of God's inerrant word...mere "straw."

      I will pay for you to join me to the debate at Sooner's church and Incy's church...and let you renounce me at the end--if you so wish.

      *Funny. How did I know that there were 66 books in the Protestant Bible?
      Last edited by ProfarMVP; 04-26-2015, 05:45 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post

        *Funny. How did I know that there were 66 books in the Protestant Bible?
        You must have Googled it, because you certainly never read them!

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        • #34
          CHICKENS?!!

          Well that settles it.

          Yes I changed the topic because some posters were complaining. I suggested you start a thread in the off topic section. If you're in Alaska, you've got nothing but time.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
            ProfarMVP you're in Anchorage? That's pretty neat. So if you're in Alaska and went to UCLA, how'd you become a Rangers fan?
            I've lived all over...and continue to move all over...

            I lived in the Metroplex from 1988 to 2000. Principally, Nolan Ryan is why I became a Ranger fan....watching him throw 97mph heaters and take down Robin Ventura.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Flounder1 View Post

              You must have Googled it, because you certainly never read them!
              Funny you should say that, Carl. I've read the bible, cover to cover 3 times...though I don't even possess one now. As a teen I memorized huge swaths of the bible... Our church youth leader got us competitive types seduced into "Bible Quizzing" Of course I had to win, so I memorized the entire book of James (that aforementioned straw epistle), the first 7 chapters of Acts and the first 10 chapters of Matthew. At first I was lazy and drove my youth director crazy...then I caught the fire...And I got really good.

              Right after college I bought one of the first Macintoshes ever. We are talking mid 1980's here. I TYPED the entire new testament into the computer. And all of Psalms. And all of Proverbs. And all of Isaiah. Keep in mind: there was no competition at this point, no youth leader, no external motivation. It was all about a man coming of age who loved God. Or who loved his ideas of God.

              I called the Lockman foundation--who owned the rights to the NAS version of the Bible and was responsible for that translation...to see if a digital version interested them. They immediately informed me that I must delete all of it from my computer!

              It became apparent to me that the Lockman foundation wasn't so interested in spreading God's Word as they were in their Bible sales. (But I didn't delete a precious word!)

              I've got lots of history about being inside the church, surrounded by international church leaders--much more interesting than these--want to hear more?
              Last edited by ProfarMVP; 04-26-2015, 06:51 PM.

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              • #37
                and this is why religion should never be introduced to sports discussion boards. ED. ED Where are you?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by rainag View Post
                  and this is why religion should never be introduced to sports discussion boards. ED. ED Where are you?
                  Sickbed unfortunately. Although some of the content is posted earnestly, that's all folks. Thanks!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by ProfarMVP
                    Originally posted by Flounder1 View Post

                    You must have Googled it, because you certainly never read them!
                    Funny you should say that, Carl. I've read the bible, cover to cover 3 times...though I don't even possess one now. As a teen I memorized huge swaths of the bible... Our church youth leader got us competitive types seduced into "Bible Quizzing" Of course I had to win, so I memorized the entire book of James (that aforementioned straw epistle), the first 7 chapters of Acts and the first 10 chapters of Matthew. At first I was lazy and drove my youth director crazy...then I caught the fire...And I got really good.

                    Right after college I bought one of the first Macintoshes ever. We are talking mid 1980's here. I TYPED the entire new testament into the computer. And all of Psalms. And all of Proverbs. And all of Isaiah. Keep in mind: there was no competition at this point, no youth leader, no external motivation. It was all about a man coming of age who loved God. Or who loved his ideas of God.

                    I called the Lockman foundation--who owned the rights to the NAS version of the Bible and was responsible for that translation...to see if a digital version interested them. They immediately informed me that I must delete all of it from my computer!

                    It became apparent to me that the Lockman foundation wasn't so interested in spreading God's Word as they were in their Bible sales. (But I didn't delete a precious word!)

                    I've got lots of history about being inside the church, surrounded by international church leaders--much more interesting than these--want to hear more?
                    I've got to say I'm somewhat impressed. Not by the claim you read the Bible through 3 times (though admirable), but to memorize and especially to type it out. That's a massive amount of work.

                    But I know what you're saying about Bible publishers. With licensing a lot of people are in it for the money. I was good friends with a man who was president of a Bible Translation center in TX. The Bible League purchased rights to their translation, which they were working in getting approved in China, and all of a sudden that Chinese work all the trips and meeting was out the window.

                    However their impure motives don't bind the word of God anymore than the Booths of Annas diminished the real Glory of God in the Temple. People manipulate religion, and that's probably more prevalent in the Jewish-Christian faith than anywhere else. But the Word is filled with warnings about this, so I don't see why its a good reason to reject the faith. Beyond that God will settle up with all those who have used His name and Gospel for their own means.

                    As far as reading/memorizing the Bible though, while admirable, someone can read the scriptures 50 times through and if they're not converted in the end they profit nothing. Such is the nature of scripture as Paul makes plain in 1 Corinthians 2. I don't know you enough to asses whether your faith was genuine or not, but the fact that you are are avowed unbeliever at this point suggest it was not.
                    Last edited by Incy29; 04-27-2015, 12:33 PM.

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                    • #40
                      ProfarMVP why not post a couple of your main arguments against the Christian faith? I'm curious.

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                      • #41
                        It wouldn't do any good to debate with someone about religion because that is what man would do. Faith that There is a God and that Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins and rose to pay the penalty for our so sins is FAITH. It comes from within. It's not something you try to debate against. No one is trying to convert anyone. We just have faith and want others to have what we have. Debating is pointless because the day will come when those who have been praying for you, that God will soften your heart and you will know too. We love you all. God loves you all. That's why we care to even share. You can't change our minds because we have something bigger than what a lawyer would go by. The whole reason our country I in such trouble is because debating things to see who the best debator or persuader instead of what is right has filled our government with lawyers who don't care what's right. Just who wins. With God, everyone wins.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
                          ProfarMVP why not post a couple of your main arguments against the Christian faith? I'm curious.
                          Thank you for the invitation. I'll do so...though likely not today. Work happens.

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                          • #43
                            Ranger Danger, I think I understand what you're saying. I would agree that no one is debated/argued into the Christian faith. Entrance into the faith (Biblically speaking) is a work of the Spirit of God, not the devices nor cleverness of men.

                            Therefore to attempt to debate with an aim to proselytize is largely an exercise in vanity.

                            However often times debate/discussion can be beneficial from the standpoint of by standards who observe, and to (hopefully) spur further study/consideration amongst those who participate.

                            I highly doubt at the end of this thread ProfarMVP is going to announce my answers have brought him back to the fold, however I'm interested in hearing his case against the Christian faith. If for no other reason than to hear a new argument which will cause me to study more.

                            I think we as Christians have a responsibility to provide an answer to those who question the faith. True there's a time not to cast our pearls before swine, but IMO, that scripture is used far too often out of context because Christians have not equipped themselves to answer their critics. Unless someone is being vile and profane, I don't see the harm in engaging them. If they're just skeptical and unbelieving but reasonably respectful in presenting their arguments, then why not have the discussion?

                            Truth will win out, because God's truth is not based on my ability/inability to articulate it and flawlessly defend it.
                            Last edited by Incy29; 04-27-2015, 12:57 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by ProfarMVP
                              Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
                              ProfarMVP why not post a couple of your main arguments against the Christian faith? I'm curious.
                              Thank you for the invitation. I'll do so...though likely not today. Work happens.
                              No problem. I am bi-vocational and work for a living too. Just whenever you can. I'm posting on a lunch break right now. But will have some free time this evening and tomorrow evening to engage. Beyond that I'll check in as opportunity presents itself.

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                              • #45
                                There is a difference between a debate and answering questions about faith. To be challenged to a debate in front of a pastors large church would not do anyone any good. And would probably cause a bunch of christians to become defensive and act unchristianlike. I didn't see anyone ask any questions about faith. But i agree there is no harm, engaging in a one-on-one setting and as you said, respectful atmosphere. Nothing I read was disrespectful. But the most powerful tools we have at reaching unbelievers is #1 our testimony and #2 being spirit led.

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