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  • On being Christian

    This generalized title is a catch basin for off topic comments out of a Josh Hamilton MLB thread. It was not originated by an NMLR poster.

  • #2
    Originally posted by texassooner1 View Post

    No, I never thought Josh Hamilton was a Christian hero. To the contrary, I have always thought Josh was a broken man honestly trying to do better...honestly trying to overcome so many addictions and personality flaws. Most addicts get to do that in relative quiet. Hamilton has to do that in front of huge stage filled with journalists looking for the next story. I don't think Josh Hamilton is a hypocrite though he IS sometimes hypocritical...just like most of us. I think he is honestly trying to live up to his words. He just has so much more stacked against him...most of which he did to himself.

    Hamilton said so many things within a Christian context I wished he wouldn't have. About his wife...things I have read her say make me cringe. I have never been impressed with bombastic people. I suspect they are compensating for something they perceive to be missing.

    I wanted Texas to re-up Hamilton. I was angry with JD for dragging his feet. I then saw Hamilton crater and over the last two years I had decided we dodged a bullet. But, now, I am thrilled to have him back especially at $7mm / 3 years. He can certainly live up to that.

    And, besides that, I think he needs us. I am hoping he is a better person in Texas. I think Texas will do a better job helping him than LA. He has to have others help him to make it. I am hoping, for the sake of the girls, that he and his wife get back together.

    I think this team is better with Hamilton than without him. I will always take what he says about spiritual things with "a grain of salt" because I think he means well but it doesn't mean he will be able to live it out. He IS a broken man trying to do better. I'm glad he is coming back.

    So, Profar, don't try to pigeonhole me into your warped understanding of Christianity and personal vendettas.


    Josh has been asked by numerous churches to come share his testimony. His testimony gets weighted 100 times as much because he's not merely a major league baseball player but a mighty home run hitter. Christians invite their friends to come hear about "the power of God."

    Christians LOVE testimonies...they so readily demonstrate the power of God, don't they? And they are incessantly used as "proof" of Christianity's ridiculous claims.

    But for those of us outsiders who DO WATCH and DO LISTEN to christians and their testimonies...and then start asking hard questions...we are reminded that XYZ is "only human."

    For Christians, the testimony game works the same way as it does for advertisers. Ignore the data points that can't be useful.

    The Christian faith doesn't claim to make people 5% or 30% or 200% more loving and more honest and more moral. The Christian faith claims to make people "children of God, "new creations" The christian faith claims to turn evil goats to happy sheep, and prodigals into promise. You christians have a ridiculously vast burden of proof--yet divorce rates of christians are the same as non-christians, and Christian teens are equally promiscuous. Christianity flunks all kinds of intellectual tests but perhaps at the top of the list is the failure of Christians to be different. They aren't. You aren't.

    I want Josh to succeed--both with baseball and more importantly with his recovery. If that makes me look foolish because of my predictions, I can live with that. His life is more important than my rep on internet forums. What I despise is all the bullshit rhetoric and false claims.
    Last edited by ProfarMVP; 04-25-2015, 04:23 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post

      The Christian faith doesn't claim to make people 5% or 30% or 200% more loving and more honest and more moral. The Christian faith claims to make people "children of God, "new creations" The christian faith claims to turn evil goats to happy sheep, and prodigals into promise. You christians have a ridiculously vast burden of proof--yet divorce rates of christians are the same as non-christians, and Christian teens are equally promiscuous. Christianity flunks all kinds of intellectual tests but perhaps at the top of the list is the failure of Christians to be different. They aren't. You aren't.
      .
      The Bible claims that the moment a person receives Christ as Savior that person becomes a new baby Christian, a new child of God. That Christ follower begins the lifelong journey of growing and changing into the image of Christ which will never be fully realized until heaven. Just like babies Christians grow and fall flat on their face and get up and get going again. Christians are to influence their culture but sometimes our culture influences us. The perfection you speak of is never anticipated on this earth in this life but you know that.

      Thanks for reminding me that I haven't "arrived" but I was actually already convinced of it.

      Now, back to baseball.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        Josh has been asked by numerous churches to come share his testimony. His testimony gets weighted 100 times as much because he's not merely a major league baseball player but a mighty home run hitter. Christians invite their friends to come hear about "the power of God."
        Perhaps in hindsight it could be considered unwise to have allowed Josh to speak publicly, but it's hard to blame a church for allowing him to do so. It is not unusual for public figures to speak in churches regarding their faith. I don't think churches should avoid it altogether, but sometimes Christians seem a bit to giddy to give a platform to someone because they are a celebrity, and yes, sometimes the end result is egg on the face.
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        Christians LOVE testimonies...they so readily demonstrate the power of God, don't they? And they are incessantly used as "proof" of Christianity's ridiculous claims.
        Profar, I have to say I think you are painting with too broad a brush here. I myself have been a Christian for 15 years. I was baptized on January 23, 2000. My entire life has radically changed. I've been delivered from things that I used to do that are too shameful to post about even anonymously on a baseball forum. Granted, I was addicted to cocaine, but some (most) would probably say the things I've done were worse. But God delivered me from them all. Am I perfect, by no means, but I don't struggle with the things that were absolutely destroying my live 15 years ago. I struggle sometimes with not loving people as I ought to, perhaps making a smart elleck comment to someone when I shouldn't have, sometimes disciplining my kids out of frustration over what they did or their attitude, rather than disciplining with correction and greater self control. Yes, I still sin, and see how far short I fall short of the standard that is given us Christians by Jesus himself, but thus the heart of the Christian gospel. It is by grace we are saved, not of works lest anyone should boast. I (we) don't have to live perfect lives to be accepted by God, we are accepted because Christ already lived a perfect life (and by faith His righteousness is imputed to us) while at the same time bore the wrath of God that I (we all) deserve at the cross. Thus God can justify a sinner like myself (and Josh Hamilton, and you if you would repent and trust in Him) while at the same time being perfectly fair, righteous, and holy.

        I'm now going on 16 years, at some point it's not a "fluke". And I will grant you the argument that a "changed life" doesn't make Christianity true. Some can be disciplined into "change" and never convert, regardless of whether they identify as Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. A testimony is simply one evidence (and in some cases a very strong evidence) of the power of God in someone's life and the truth of Christianity. Beyond that Christianity stands or falls on its claims. Even if every single Christian in history were a total hypocrite, that wouldn't diminish the facts that Jesus Christ was the Son of God who lived a perfect life and gave His life on the cross and subsequently rose after 3 days. I know it's a baseball forum, but since you interjected religion, I am more than comfortable hearing about these "ridiculous claims" that Christianity makes, feel free to send them to me by Private Message, or to post them here on the main board.
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        But for those of us outsiders who DO WATCH and DO LISTEN to christians and their testimonies...and then start asking hard questions...we are reminded that XYZ is "only human."
        True, and sometimes that IS a legitimate response. The sad fact however is that many Christians simply are not born again, thus Christianity is drug through the mud because the modern American version is a me-first selfish materialistic religion that turns the death of Jesus into a get rich (and healthy) quick pyramid scheme with a lot of "preachers" getting rich, and "saints" chasing a dangling carrot of "prosperity". You and me both would probably be thrilled if Christian TV went away tomorrow.
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        The Christian faith doesn't claim to make people 5% or 30% or 200% more loving and more honest and more moral. The Christian faith claims to make people "children of God, "new creations" The christian faith claims to turn evil goats to happy sheep, and prodigals into promise.
        YES! YES! YES! That is exactly what Biblical Christianity claims. Therefore if someone claims to be Christian but remains living a life of sin and the things of God are of little value to them, they have no desire to read the Word or to pray, then the chances are they are not saved anyway. Hence again, the problem of false conversion, and the open door to legitimate criticism from those outside the church.
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        You christians have a ridiculously vast burden of proof--yet divorce rates of christians are the same as non-christians, and Christian teens are equally promiscuous.
        In fairness, the divorce stat is a bad one, because it takes all who claim to be "Christian" rather than those who are actually church attending, Bible reading, praying Christians. I'd challenge you to do some more research. 76% of Americans claim to be Christian, yet we have the highest incarceration rate in the world (25%), we kill 4,000 babies a day, gambling and pornography are multi billion dollar industries, alcoholism is rampant, homicide, rape, and violent crime fill our nation. And I could list dozens more vices that are destroying our society. Therefore one of the following must be true 1)This IS what what following Jesus looks like or 2)Of the 76% who claim to be Christians, the real number is much, much lower (I'd estimate 20%). Therefore, again, the divorce stat is no more reliable than the stat I provided.
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        Christianity flunks all kinds of intellectual tests but perhaps at the top of the list is the failure of Christians to be different.
        I agree with the latter part of this statement. But I know many Christians who can testify (with a pattern of life spanning many years) whose lives stand in refutation of this statment. But in a general sense, I agree with you.
        Originally posted by ProfarMVP
        I want Josh to succeed--both with baseball and more importantly with his recovery. If that makes me look foolish because of my predictions, I can live with that. His life is more important than my rep on internet forums. What I despise is all the bull rhetoric and false claims.
        I can respect that.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
          Perhaps in hindsight it could be considered unwise to have allowed Josh to speak publicly, but it's hard to blame a church for allowing him to do so. It is not unusual for public figures to speak in churches regarding their faith. I don't think churches should avoid it altogether, but sometimes Christians seem a bit to giddy to give a platform to someone because they are a celebrity, and yes, sometimes the end result is egg on the face.

          Profar, I have to say I think you are painting with too broad a brush here. I myself have been a Christian for 15 years. I was baptized on January 23, 2000. My entire life has radically changed. I've been delivered from things that I used to do that are too shameful to post about even anonymously on a baseball forum. Granted, I was addicted to cocaine, but some (most) would probably say the things I've done were worse. But God delivered me from them all. Am I perfect, by no means, but I don't struggle with the things that were absolutely destroying my live 15 years ago. I struggle sometimes with not loving people as I ought to, perhaps making a smart elleck comment to someone when I shouldn't have, sometimes disciplining my kids out of frustration over what they did or their attitude, rather than disciplining with correction and greater self control. Yes, I still sin, and see how far short I fall short of the standard that is given us Christians by Jesus himself, but thus the heart of the Christian gospel. It is by grace we are saved, not of works lest anyone should boast. I (we) don't have to live perfect lives to be accepted by God, we are accepted because Christ already lived a perfect life (and by faith His righteousness is imputed to us) while at the same time bore the wrath of God that I (we all) deserve at the cross. Thus God can justify a sinner like myself (and Josh Hamilton, and you if you would repent and trust in Him) while at the same time being perfectly fair, righteous, and holy.

          I'm now going on 16 years, at some point it's not a "fluke". And I will grant you the argument that a "changed life" doesn't make Christianity true. Some can be disciplined into "change" and never convert, regardless of whether they identify as Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. A testimony is simply one evidence (and in some cases a very strong evidence) of the power of God in someone's life and the truth of Christianity. Beyond that Christianity stands or falls on its claims. Even if every single Christian in history were a total hypocrite, that wouldn't diminish the facts that Jesus Christ was the Son of God who lived a perfect life and gave His life on the cross and subsequently rose after 3 days. I know it's a baseball forum, but since you interjected religion, I am more than comfortable hearing about these "ridiculous claims" that Christianity makes, feel free to send them to me by Private Message, or to post them here on the main board.

          True, and sometimes that IS a legitimate response. The sad fact however is that many Christians simply are not born again, thus Christianity is drug through the mud because the modern American version is a me-first selfish materialistic religion that turns the death of Jesus into a get rich (and healthy) quick pyramid scheme with a lot of "preachers" getting rich, and "saints" chasing a dangling carrot of "prosperity". You and me both would probably be thrilled if Christian TV went away tomorrow.

          YES! YES! YES! That is exactly what Biblical Christianity claims. Therefore if someone claims to be Christian but remains living a life of sin and the things of God are of little value to them, they have no desire to read the Word or to pray, then the chances are they are not saved anyway. Hence again, the problem of false conversion, and the open door to legitimate criticism from those outside the church.

          In fairness, the divorce stat is a bad one, because it takes all who claim to be "Christian" rather than those who are actually church attending, Bible reading, praying Christians. I'd challenge you to do some more research. 76% of Americans claim to be Christian, yet we have the highest incarceration rate in the world (25%), we kill 4,000 babies a day, gambling and pornography are multi billion dollar industries, alcoholism is rampant, homicide, rape, and violent crime fill our nation. And I could list dozens more vices that are destroying our society. Therefore one of the following must be true 1)This IS what what following Jesus looks like or 2)Of the 76% who claim to be Christians, the real number is much, much lower (I'd estimate 20%). Therefore, again, the divorce stat is no more reliable than the stat I provided.

          I agree with the latter part of this statement. But I know many Christians who can testify (with a pattern of life spanning many years) whose lives stand in refutation of this statment. But in a general sense, I agree with you.

          I can respect that.


          Incy I applaud your recovery from cocaine and the other destructive habits.

          You make a huge differentiation between christians who regularly pray, attend church and read the bible from those who don't. I suggest that's the key and not the Christian faith itself: Repeated moral reflection, support of friends, reading of inspirational literature, and meditation.

          Comment


          • #6
            I would note that on the marriage front, while the divorce rates of religious and nonreligious are about the same, looking at long-term marriages, the vast majority of 50 years plus marriages was between two people who actively practiced the same religion. Studies of very long-term marriages, the numbers were extremely interesting, as the percentages of very religious in the same religion was many multiples the rates of any other category. So maybe religion only does you good if you actively practice it.

            Comment


            • #7
              I usually do not partake in religious discussions because they are of such a personal matter that they usually do not apply from one person to the next. I will say this however. someone that is able to live a Christian life of serving others, keeping their own life in order, treating people with respect and dignity and not getting caught up in the chase for money just for its sake only generally are the kind of people you would like to know in your life if they do not prosteletize you. There are many who profess to be Christians that do not live that way and just constantly screw others over in business and life, show up to church religiously to be seen for the benefits of the community and play candy crush all during the sermons. Only in their own little pea brains can these people justify what they are doing professing to be Christians. Oh and they constantly ask for forgiveness because they are not perfect.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ProfarMVP
                Originally posted by Incy29 View Post
                Perhaps in hindsight it could be considered unwise to have allowed Josh to speak publicly, but it's hard to blame a church for allowing him to do so. It is not unusual for public figures to speak in churches regarding their faith. I don't think churches should avoid it altogether, but sometimes Christians seem a bit to giddy to give a platform to someone because they are a celebrity, and yes, sometimes the end result is egg on the face.

                Profar, I have to say I think you are painting with too broad a brush here. I myself have been a Christian for 15 years. I was baptized on January 23, 2000. My entire life has radically changed. I've been delivered from things that I used to do that are too shameful to post about even anonymously on a baseball forum. Granted, I was addicted to cocaine, but some (most) would probably say the things I've done were worse. But God delivered me from them all. Am I perfect, by no means, but I don't struggle with the things that were absolutely destroying my live 15 years ago. I struggle sometimes with not loving people as I ought to, perhaps making a smart elleck comment to someone when I shouldn't have, sometimes disciplining my kids out of frustration over what they did or their attitude, rather than disciplining with correction and greater self control. Yes, I still sin, and see how far short I fall short of the standard that is given us Christians by Jesus himself, but thus the heart of the Christian gospel. It is by grace we are saved, not of works lest anyone should boast. I (we) don't have to live perfect lives to be accepted by God, we are accepted because Christ already lived a perfect life (and by faith His righteousness is imputed to us) while at the same time bore the wrath of God that I (we all) deserve at the cross. Thus God can justify a sinner like myself (and Josh Hamilton, and you if you would repent and trust in Him) while at the same time being perfectly fair, righteous, and holy.

                I'm now going on 16 years, at some point it's not a "fluke". And I will grant you the argument that a "changed life" doesn't make Christianity true. Some can be disciplined into "change" and never convert, regardless of whether they identify as Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. A testimony is simply one evidence (and in some cases a very strong evidence) of the power of God in someone's life and the truth of Christianity. Beyond that Christianity stands or falls on its claims. Even if every single Christian in history were a total hypocrite, that wouldn't diminish the facts that Jesus Christ was the Son of God who lived a perfect life and gave His life on the cross and subsequently rose after 3 days. I know it's a baseball forum, but since you interjected religion, I am more than comfortable hearing about these "ridiculous claims" that Christianity makes, feel free to send them to me by Private Message, or to post them here on the main board.

                True, and sometimes that IS a legitimate response. The sad fact however is that many Christians simply are not born again, thus Christianity is drug through the mud because the modern American version is a me-first selfish materialistic religion that turns the death of Jesus into a get rich (and healthy) quick pyramid scheme with a lot of "preachers" getting rich, and "saints" chasing a dangling carrot of "prosperity". You and me both would probably be thrilled if Christian TV went away tomorrow.

                YES! YES! YES! That is exactly what Biblical Christianity claims. Therefore if someone claims to be Christian but remains living a life of sin and the things of God are of little value to them, they have no desire to read the Word or to pray, then the chances are they are not saved anyway. Hence again, the problem of false conversion, and the open door to legitimate criticism from those outside the church.

                In fairness, the divorce stat is a bad one, because it takes all who claim to be "Christian" rather than those who are actually church attending, Bible reading, praying Christians. I'd challenge you to do some more research. 76% of Americans claim to be Christian, yet we have the highest incarceration rate in the world (25%), we kill 4,000 babies a day, gambling and pornography are multi billion dollar industries, alcoholism is rampant, homicide, rape, and violent crime fill our nation. And I could list dozens more vices that are destroying our society. Therefore one of the following must be true 1)This IS what what following Jesus looks like or 2)Of the 76% who claim to be Christians, the real number is much, much lower (I'd estimate 20%). Therefore, again, the divorce stat is no more reliable than the stat I provided.

                I agree with the latter part of this statement. But I know many Christians who can testify (with a pattern of life spanning many years) whose lives stand in refutation of this statment. But in a general sense, I agree with you.

                I can respect that.


                Incy I applaud your recovery from cocaine and the other destructive habits.

                You make a huge differentiation between christians who regularly pray, attend church and read the bible from those who don't. I suggest that's the key and not the Christian faith itself: Repeated moral reflection, support of friends, reading of inspirational literature, and meditation.
                Thank you (I think).

                Just ftr though I wasn't addicted to cocaine. No need to get into anything else, suffice it to say I had destructive habits.

                I disagree with your take on the Christian faith. The real power to live a Christian life comes from the Spirit of God who creates in those who are redeemed a new nature. It is not so much that I resist the temptation of those things which I was allowing to destroy as much as when I repented of my sins God freed me from the desire for those things, and the result was a striking and immediate change which has not worn off some 15 1/2 years later.

                HOWEVER, in regard to Josh Hamilton, who clearly still fights a battle against debilitating habits (this alone is not proof he isn't truly saved for at least he is fighting against them, God knows those who are His and who are only serving in pretense, and I'm not sure where Hamilton falls in all that).

                But I agree with what you're saying about structure. Religious structure can be good for people. (I don't believe that "saves" anyone, but can be beneficial for those who need it). We see it for example in Jehovah's Witnessism, Mormonism, Zen Buddhism, even recovery programs such as AA and NA can have a measure of success if someone submits to the system.

                So while I would much rather see Josh find himself through Christ and total deliverance from drugs, from the Texas Rangers POV their best bet is give him some structure, a support system, and someone who will help him to be accountable for himself. I think they'll do that, and I believe Josh Hamilton is going to have a resurgence.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Incy29 View Post

                  Thank you (I think).

                  Just ftr though I wasn't addicted to cocaine. No need to get into anything else, suffice it to say I had destructive habits.

                  I disagree with your take on the Christian faith. The real power to live a Christian life comes from the Spirit of God who creates in those who are redeemed a new nature. It is not so much that I resist the temptation of those things which I was allowing to destroy as much as when I repented of my sins God freed me from the desire for those things, and the result was a striking and immediate change which has not worn off some 15 1/2 years later.

                  HOWEVER, in regard to Josh Hamilton, who clearly still fights a battle against debilitating habits (this alone is not proof he isn't truly saved for at least he is fighting against them, God knows those who are His and who are only serving in pretense, and I'm not sure where Hamilton falls in all that).

                  But I agree with what you're saying about structure. Religious structure can be good for people. (I don't believe that "saves" anyone, but can be beneficial for those who need it). We see it for example in Jehovah's Witnessism, Mormonism, Zen Buddhism, even recovery programs such as AA and NA can have a measure of success if someone submits to the system.

                  So while I would much rather see Josh find himself through Christ and total deliverance from drugs, from the Texas Rangers POV their best bet is give him some structure, a support system, and someone who will help him to be accountable for himself. I think they'll do that, and I believe Josh Hamilton is going to have a resurgence.
                  Incy, I am glad you have come to know Christ as your personal Savior and am happy to call you my brother. May you continue growing and walking in Him as He continues to change you from the inside out.

                  Your story is very similar to my father's. He was in his early 20's already an alcoholic...just like his father. Our family must have some inherent disposition toward alcoholism...the best I know. (I have stayed away from alcohol as a result of their stories.) On the day he accepted Christ as a young man it was removed and he has never had a drop since...now an old man. Others I know do not have the same response and fight with it the rest of their life.

                  Thanks for telling your story. All of us battle something. It's part of living. Jesus has made a forever different in my life. It isn't just religion to me. I'll never walk away from Him.
                  Last edited by texassooner1; 04-26-2015, 01:33 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by texassooner1 View Post

                    Incy, I am glad you have come to know Christ as your personal Savior and am happy to call you my brother. May you continue growing and walking in Him as He continues to change you from the inside out.
                    You were extremely eager, Sooner, to stop/censor the religious discussion on the last page when you and I were dialoging...and "get back to baseball" a convenient manipulation meant merely to ensure yourself the last word. Now a dozen posts later you are exultant to resume religious chatter as you found yourself another friend and ally. You reek of pollution and hypocrisy.

                    To the facts: Sooner is a fundamentalist bible pumping preacher for a church north of Houston. That's his chosen career, though 3 years ago he asked me to to keep this fact hidden. Out of respect I did hide this fact for 3 years but I won't hide facts for him any longer.

                    His agenda here needs to be exposed.
                    Last edited by ProfarMVP; 04-26-2015, 01:44 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post
                      You were extremely eager, Sooner, to stop/censor the religious discussion on the last page when you and I were dialoging...and "get back to baseball" a convenient manipulation meant merely to ensure yourself the last word. Now a dozen posts later you are exultant to resume religious chatter as you found yourself another friend and ally. You reek of pollution and hypocrisy.

                      To the facts: Sooner is a fundamentalist bible pumping preacher for a church north of Houston. That's his chosen career, though 3 years ago he asked me to to keep this fact hidden. Out of respect I did hide this fact for 3 years but I won't hide facts for him any longer.

                      His agenda here needs to be exposed.
                      Profar, that is pathetic. Totally pathetic. He has no agenda here. He's on a baseball forum. I'm sure he has an agenda elsewhere, but there is hardly one here. If anyone appears to have an agenda on here, it's you. What a pathetic act. Completely and totally.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Doug View Post

                        Profar, that is pathetic. Totally pathetic. He has no agenda here. He's on a baseball forum. I'm sure he has an agenda elsewhere, but there is hardly one here. If anyone appears to have an agenda on here, it's you. What a pathetic act. Completely and totally.
                        We emphatically disagree on what is "pathetic"

                        The whole Josh Hamilton christian show has been nothing but a circus act. And Sooner trying to PM me to convert me several years back (as he's presumably done with others) is more of the same. Pathetic.

                        Good gawd, you would have thought Sooner's post to Incy was a congratulations to one of his congregants coming down the aisle a moment ago...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ProfarMVP View Post
                          You were extremely eager, Sooner, to stop/censor the religious discussion on the last page when you and I were dialoging...and "get back to baseball" a convenient manipulation meant merely to ensure yourself the last word. Now a dozen posts later you are exultant to resume religious chatter as you found yourself another friend and ally. You reek of pollution and hypocrisy.

                          To the facts: Sooner is a fundamentalist bible pumping preacher for a church north of Houston. That's his chosen career, though 3 years ago he asked me to to keep this fact hidden. Out of respect I did hide this fact for 3 years but I won't hide facts for him any longer.

                          His agenda here needs to be exposed.
                          I asked to get back to baseball because this is a baseball site...not a religious site. I haven't initiated religious dialogue but I won't let berating of believers or of Jesus go by unchallenged. I just won't. Usually two people have initiated this with Profar probably the most frequent.

                          I AM a pastor. I wanted that not to be a issue on this site only because I want / need an area of my life that isn't based upon my profession. I pastor a large church and am ALWAYS in a fish bowl. I just wanted to be a person like everyone else. This is / was my only outlet.

                          Profar and I have dialogued offline about God on several occasions. Within that context I asked that I still be able to be "a person" not judged by my profession. I knew eventually Profar's personality would violate his promise. It's who he is. So....actually, I think he went longer than I ever thought he could go.

                          Others on this site already know I am pastor, as well, through offline conversations. But their character and personality is just more dependable. I knew they would let me just be a person with an opinion about the Texas Rangers even if my opinion wasn't always that profound. Thanks guys.

                          I have been on this site for at least 20 years. It's been fun. I'll walk away.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by texassooner1 View Post

                            I asked to get back to baseball because this is a baseball site...not a religious site. I haven't initiated religious dialogue but I won't let berating of believers or of Jesus go by unchallenged. I just won't. Usually two people have initiated this with Profar probably the most frequent.

                            I AM a pastor. I wanted that not to be a issue on this site only because I want / need an area of my life that isn't based upon my profession. I pastor a large church and am ALWAYS in a fish bowl. I just wanted to be a person like everyone else. This is / was my only outlet.

                            Profar and I have dialogued offline about God on several occasions. Within that context I asked that I still be able to be "a person" not judged by my profession. I knew eventually Profar's personality would violate his promise. It's who he is. So....actually, I think he went longer than I ever thought he could go.

                            Others on this site already know I am pastor, as well, through offline conversations. But their character and personality is just more dependable. I knew they would let me just be a person with an opinion about the Texas Rangers even if my opinion wasn't always that profound. Thanks guys.

                            I have been on this site for at least 20 years. It's been fun. I'll walk away.
                            What a complete martyr. This site is your one consolation where you can escape your church? Your one and only escape from such a crushing reality of being a celebrity christian leader with all the burden of authority and wealth? And we should all feel pity?

                            So sorry that I wouldn't carry your secrets...as did those who share your religion!
                            Last edited by ProfarMVP; 04-26-2015, 02:11 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by texassooner1
                              Originally posted by Incy29 View Post

                              Thank you (I think).

                              Just ftr though I wasn't addicted to cocaine. No need to get into anything else, suffice it to say I had destructive habits.

                              I disagree with your take on the Christian faith. The real power to live a Christian life comes from the Spirit of God who creates in those who are redeemed a new nature. It is not so much that I resist the temptation of those things which I was allowing to destroy as much as when I repented of my sins God freed me from the desire for those things, and the result was a striking and immediate change which has not worn off some 15 1/2 years later.

                              HOWEVER, in regard to Josh Hamilton, who clearly still fights a battle against debilitating habits (this alone is not proof he isn't truly saved for at least he is fighting against them, God knows those who are His and who are only serving in pretense, and I'm not sure where Hamilton falls in all that).

                              But I agree with what you're saying about structure. Religious structure can be good for people. (I don't believe that "saves" anyone, but can be beneficial for those who need it). We see it for example in Jehovah's Witnessism, Mormonism, Zen Buddhism, even recovery programs such as AA and NA can have a measure of success if someone submits to the system.

                              So while I would much rather see Josh find himself through Christ and total deliverance from drugs, from the Texas Rangers POV their best bet is give him some structure, a support system, and someone who will help him to be accountable for himself. I think they'll do that, and I believe Josh Hamilton is going to have a resurgence.
                              Incy, I am glad you have come to know Christ as your personal Savior and am happy to call you my brother. May you continue growing and walking in Him as He continues to change you from the inside out.

                              Your story is very similar to my father's. He was in his early 20's already an alcoholic...just like his father. Our family must have some inherent disposition toward alcoholism...the best I know. (I have stayed away from alcohol as a result of their stories.) On the day he accepted Christ as a young man it was removed and he has never had a drop since...now an old man. Others I know do not have the same response and fight with it the rest of their life.

                              Thanks for telling your story. All of us battle something. It's part of living. Jesus has made a forever different in my life. It isn't just religion to me. I'll never walk away from Him.
                              My pleasure.

                              One of the reasons I enjoy sports so much is that when I was really destroying my life I was reasonably good at baseball, and I lived to follow baseball from the time I was really little.

                              I grew up in a broken home and there was a lot of abuse. But I can remember listening to the Rangers from the time I was about 7 years old on the radio. I'd listen to the pre game show, every pitch till bedtime, and nearly every game. During daylight hours I put the radio in the front yard and throw a tennis ball against a brick wall on the house or the garage . Baseball, specifically Rangers baseball was a friend to me in many lonely nights and as I got older interest in it helped me have someway to spend my time and energy on things that weren't destroying my life. As I grew older the results of sin started to really affect my life. But in hindsight an interest in sports and especially baseball was a deterrent to my wickedness.

                              As a sidenote, while mentioning Rangers baseball and my childhood the reason I choose the nickname Incy29 is because the first Ranger teams I watched featured Pete O'Brien, Steve Buchelle, Ruben Sierra, Pete Incavilia, Jim Sundberg, Charlie Hough and Nolan. In particular, I remember one night I turned the light off for bed and the Ranger game was going on the radio. It was the bottom of the 9th and the Rangers trailed (I think by two). I remember Pete Incavilia coming up to bat and then swinging wildly and missing the first pitch and the announcer (I think Eric Nadel) talking about "Incavilia with a mighty swing and a miss. He was trying to tie this game with that swing. Then the second pitch and another big swing and a miss. Then down 0-2...the pitch "a deep fly ball, way way back, its gone! Pete Incavilia has tied the game!"

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